Has anyone ever attempted to replicate any of the Yamaha VP1 voices using a VL instrument or card?
I've attempted it on a few voices using a Yamaha FS1R, but I can't seem to get the timbre quite right.
I've been working on the FS1R and haven't gotten around to learning how to program with VLWizard yet.
I was wondering if this might be possible since the VL1 and VP1 share some of the same algorithms.
Any thoughts guys?
I just remembered, on the VL1 it has an extra module called the 'Impulse Expander'. I think the VP1 has this too, the spectrum plots show a geometrically expanding set of harmonics in some of the patches.
Yamaha VP1 Voices
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javelin276
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Re: Yamaha VP1 Voices
I did contact the owners of the VP1 synths for information etc... never received a reply.
I'm pretty convinced that the VP1 is actually a polyphonic VL1. Wish I could get hold of the SysEx structure /data list / patches of that synth so I could compare and convert. The only doc I have is the VL1 performance notes...
Yes, the VL1 has an impulse expander. The IE modifier that gives a more metallic texture to the sound.
just figured out that you are also on https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10093
looks like you are diving deep into VL... be aware that the VL synths use a powerfull KeyScaling/Breakpoint mechanism to change the values of parameters according the received key. This way they keep the VL model sound consistent in terms of timbre and behave more natural. Carefully setting these keyscales can do magic to the outcome of the VL path. Many existing VL pathes out there are not taking full benefit from this feature and can be improved just by adjusting the keyscales.
you can download the VP1 soundset for the MOTIF XF/MOXF . by sending a mail to VP1@easysounds.de and included VL1 in the subject. This will return a download link.
I'm pretty convinced that the VP1 is actually a polyphonic VL1. Wish I could get hold of the SysEx structure /data list / patches of that synth so I could compare and convert. The only doc I have is the VL1 performance notes...
Yes, the VL1 has an impulse expander. The IE modifier that gives a more metallic texture to the sound.
just figured out that you are also on https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10093
looks like you are diving deep into VL... be aware that the VL synths use a powerfull KeyScaling/Breakpoint mechanism to change the values of parameters according the received key. This way they keep the VL model sound consistent in terms of timbre and behave more natural. Carefully setting these keyscales can do magic to the outcome of the VL path. Many existing VL pathes out there are not taking full benefit from this feature and can be improved just by adjusting the keyscales.
you can download the VP1 soundset for the MOTIF XF/MOXF . by sending a mail to VP1@easysounds.de and included VL1 in the subject. This will return a download link.
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javelin276
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Re: Yamaha VP1 Voices
Hi Rudy, Yes, that's me on the YamahaMusicians Forum.
I think the Impulse Expander is responsible for the geometric harmonic series on the VP1. I could confirm that if I had a recording of a few notes played using an Impulse Expander patch on the Yamaha VL1. I have an MU2000 with two PLG150-VL cards in it, i.e. no Impulse Expander. Care to record a few VL1 notes for me?
I haven't had a VL editor with access to the keyscales until now so I haven't had a chance to experiment with that yet. Thanks for the tip, I'll put that on my list of things to experiment on. I need to familiarize myself with all of the parameters in the VL synths so I can see if I can recreate the VP1 patches that way. It still might be better to do it on the FS1R since I get more polyphony. I only have two VL cards, and the FS1R has 32-note polyphony.
Thanks for the Motif-XF easysounds link, I've already got that soundset. It contains a few VP1 waveforms, 19 to be specific. I have another larger set too which I aquired that originated from an AKAI waveset from the 1990's. Between the two sets I have quite a few recordings, including most of the original VP1 patches. There are also some new soundsets for the Motif/Montage on sale in the Yamaha store from KAPro, but I don't intend on purchasing them since I can probably create similar patches using either the FS1R or the VL cards. The metallic Impulse Expander is giving me some trouble, though.
On the AKAI wavesets, they include recordings of notes played all the way up the VP1's keyboard. I can see the effect of the keyscales on the waveforms in a spectrum analyzer. I've been mentally working out ways to mimic the changes on the FS1R so the patches sound like the VP1 over the entire range of the keyboard. I can see the same changes/effects in the VL patches too, as I play up the keyboard using my VL cards. The VP1 has an odd metallic resonance in the background on most of the patches, though. I'm still working on how to emulate it on the FS1R, I still haven't quite got it nailed down yet.
I think the Impulse Expander is responsible for the geometric harmonic series on the VP1. I could confirm that if I had a recording of a few notes played using an Impulse Expander patch on the Yamaha VL1. I have an MU2000 with two PLG150-VL cards in it, i.e. no Impulse Expander. Care to record a few VL1 notes for me?
I haven't had a VL editor with access to the keyscales until now so I haven't had a chance to experiment with that yet. Thanks for the tip, I'll put that on my list of things to experiment on. I need to familiarize myself with all of the parameters in the VL synths so I can see if I can recreate the VP1 patches that way. It still might be better to do it on the FS1R since I get more polyphony. I only have two VL cards, and the FS1R has 32-note polyphony.
Thanks for the Motif-XF easysounds link, I've already got that soundset. It contains a few VP1 waveforms, 19 to be specific. I have another larger set too which I aquired that originated from an AKAI waveset from the 1990's. Between the two sets I have quite a few recordings, including most of the original VP1 patches. There are also some new soundsets for the Motif/Montage on sale in the Yamaha store from KAPro, but I don't intend on purchasing them since I can probably create similar patches using either the FS1R or the VL cards. The metallic Impulse Expander is giving me some trouble, though.
On the AKAI wavesets, they include recordings of notes played all the way up the VP1's keyboard. I can see the effect of the keyscales on the waveforms in a spectrum analyzer. I've been mentally working out ways to mimic the changes on the FS1R so the patches sound like the VP1 over the entire range of the keyboard. I can see the same changes/effects in the VL patches too, as I play up the keyboard using my VL cards. The VP1 has an odd metallic resonance in the background on most of the patches, though. I'm still working on how to emulate it on the FS1R, I still haven't quite got it nailed down yet.
Re: Yamaha VP1 Voices
OK...I will see if I can find some time to make some recordings of notes with IE enabled / disabled..
Keep up the good work....guys like you push the world of synths a step further...
Voila, I quickly recorded some notes . first note you hear is without IE the second is with IE. I disabled all other VL modifiers and only switched on/off the IE.. Depending on the settings of the IE the frequency domain being impacted is different... overall the IE tends to make the sound richer and full...... the second test IE VL Test 2 clearly shows big impact on the sound in the higher Frequency range...
Yamaha could have achieved a bigger impact on the VL sounds if they would also have allowed to assign Keyscaling to the Impulse Expander and the Resonator...
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Keep up the good work....guys like you push the world of synths a step further...
Voila, I quickly recorded some notes . first note you hear is without IE the second is with IE. I disabled all other VL modifiers and only switched on/off the IE.. Depending on the settings of the IE the frequency domain being impacted is different... overall the IE tends to make the sound richer and full...... the second test IE VL Test 2 clearly shows big impact on the sound in the higher Frequency range...
Yamaha could have achieved a bigger impact on the VL sounds if they would also have allowed to assign Keyscaling to the Impulse Expander and the Resonator...
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
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javelin276
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Re: Yamaha VP1 Voices
Thanks Rudy.
The results are puzzling, the harmonics are all linear with both the Impulse Expander on and off, no difference in the frequencies. The amplitudes are altered, but not the frequencies.
I was wrong, the Impulse Expander is not responsible for the geometric harmonic fans, it's a new characteristic that is purely a feature of the VP1. It's also a feature I can't really model on the FS1R very well.
The results are puzzling, the harmonics are all linear with both the Impulse Expander on and off, no difference in the frequencies. The amplitudes are altered, but not the frequencies.
I was wrong, the Impulse Expander is not responsible for the geometric harmonic fans, it's a new characteristic that is purely a feature of the VP1. It's also a feature I can't really model on the FS1R very well.
Re: Yamaha VP1 Voices
Yes, it is a bizarre type of modifier...I checked all of the yamaha patents and nothing is referring to the IE.. so, Yamaha might probable refer to this in patents using another name or it is covered by the Aphex patents.... I'm digging deeper into this...